why making the robots look more human ?

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why making the robots look more human ?

Message  MurielB le Sam 12 Déc - 8:28

http://gizmodo.com/meet-the-humanoid-robot-greeting-retail-customers-in-ja-1698957378


The future is on display today in Japan, where retail workers will work alongside a talking humanoid robot to welcome customers at a major department store.The future is on display today in Japan, where retail rworkers will work alongside a talking humanoid robot to welcome customers at a major department store.

Hi Everyone !
Engineers in most of the world try to make robots perform specific and unpleasant tasks. i understand that perfectly but why are japonese enginneers obsessed with making the robots look more human ? It's so complicated. Getting robots to understand real-life human speech may be the hardest job of all and that's the reason why japonese scientists are trying to give robots means other than language to understand people. For instance understanding the variety of gestures and signs people use with language is very helpful but what for? is robot relationship like human relationship? isn't it rather fake relationship ? disappointing relationship ?

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Re: why making the robots look more human ?

Message  gerardM le Sam 12 Déc - 16:02

> make robots perform specific and unpleasant tasks
Not only Muriel.

On the other hand, there are unpleasant tasks which are not done by robots yet (I'm thinking of prostitution, wars, etc.)

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why making the robots look more human ?

Message  Philippe-Henri le Dim 3 Jan - 16:57

Muriel said:

"Engineers in most of the world try to make robots perform specific and unpleasant tasks. i understand that perfectly but why are japonese enginneers obsessed with       making the robots look more human ? It's so complicated. Getting robots to understand real-life human speech may be the hardest job of all and that's the reason why japonese scientists are trying to give robots means other than language to understand people. For instance understanding the variety of gestures and signs people use with language is very helpful but what for? is robot relationship like human relationship? isn't it rather fake relationship ? disappointing relationship?"

It’s an age-old dream of humanity to have human behaviour (voice, movement, gestures…) imitated by human-like machines (robots). Music boxes, orchestrions and barrel organs were developed by skilled (Swiss and Bavarian) watchmakers as from the 18th and 19th centuries. A well-known, funny parody on human voice robots is the mechanical puppet Olympia from Jacques Offenbach’s oper Tales of Hoffmann singing «Les oiseaux dans la charmille».

Ever since, our «data processing» engineers, scholars and scientists have feverishly but unsuccessfully been trying to digitise human voice and speech by clever algorithms. Speech recognition and machine translation today are only in their infancy.

The key is that nobody today knows how our human brain can actually convert abstract ideas into concrete written or spoken language.

Robots reason by rigid (deterministic) binary logics (1 = yes, 0 = no). The human brain reasons by «fuzzy» (probabilistic) quantum logics (1 = 0 = perhaps).

Unlike human relationship, robot relationship is a fake relationship. Disappointing, as long as we wrongly believe that reality corresponds to the «anthropic principle», i.e. the philosophical consideration that reality should be compatible with our conscious and sapient life.

Short, in our present state of neurological and technological knowledge, making robots look more human is currently not on the agenda.

Philippe-Henri

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Re: why making the robots look more human ?

Message  Guilaine le Lun 4 Jan - 19:12

Thank God !
Do you like calling that awful answering machine saying :
If you want so and so, press 1,
If you want .... Press 2, etc...
Sinon "merci de raccrocher", c'est-à-dire "allez poliment vous faire f..."

When you decide to relax and have coffee from the nearby machine, you insert your coins in the slot.
Everything goes well, except that you do not get what you ordered, you did not press the right button.

Machines or scan-tools replace the small round-the-corner retail shops in the city and now we can even buy potatoes from the machine next to the farm nearby.

To save time, we forget the social side of communication.
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why making the robots more human?

Message  Philippe-Henri le Mar 5 Jan - 5:20

To Guilaine

Thanks for your interesting contribution.

Just a remark, in British English, you should avoid mixing God together with colloquial speech. Curiously enough, religion in Great Britain is still a tricky topic. Rather say my goodness, thank heaven, for heaven’s sake! Gosh!

I agree that phone «communication» today has been reduced to answering machines: “If you want so and so, press…». Phone answering and slot machines are a form of robotizing.

This answers our initial question: «Why making robots make more human?» I believe our society gets more and more dehumanized. This is the thing, (dans l’air du temps), the current trend. On the other hand, phone operators are expensive in terms of cost of labour and mostly can’t solve your problem. Callers rapidly give it up: there is no expertise, no social contact.

Unfortunately, we have to live with.Eventually («at the end»), the question is: do robots, human or not, really make life easier?

Looking forward to your comments.

Philippe-Henri

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Re: why making the robots look more human ?

Message  Guilaine le Mar 5 Jan - 22:47

Thank you, Philippe-Henri, for your remark. What you said was new to me, sorry if I hurt you.
But as far as I remember, it seems that I often heard people say that expression in England, along with "thank goodness !"
But I may be wrong. I will not use it again, I promise.

As to the robots, I do think they make life easier. New houses are now equipped with vacuum-cleaners integrated into the walls of each room, they are domestic robots, and this is only an example of the modern "domotique". I suppose one visit to a Salon in Paris would teach me more about the recent discoveries to simplify the housework.

But as I said earlier, robots in public life prevent people from socializing. We need human contact everyday ; a smile, a conversation with a neighbour, with someone on the phone may change our day-to-day life, and change our mood.
A friend of mine who lives on his own in a flat in Paris, goes down every morning to have breakfast in a nearby café, just to see people and talk with them. I guess they only speak about the weather, or maybe the daily news, but it is vital for him to have that sort of human contact.
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Why making the robots morer human?

Message  Philippe-Henri le Mer 6 Jan - 5:59

To Guilaine

To Guilaine

«Thank God» versus «Thank goodness»… well I may speak somewhat old-fashioned «Oxford English».This reminds me of the story:

-- You don't believe in God, do you?̶
-- My God, that’s true!

Back to robots.

As to «domotique» (home automation) you are quite right, although I believe that most of those engines, instead of simplifying housework, are just gadgets. Personally, I’m not in for the increasing use of gadgetry in modern life.

But times change. Who to date would say a vacuum cleaner, an iron or a washer is a «gadget»? ?

A persisting reality, as you correctly pointed out, is that robotizing in public life prevents people from socializing. Why do our politicians want us to be just obedient citizens? Paul Valéry gave the answer: «Politics is the art of preventing people from dealing with things that [really] concern them.» Give them «bread and circuses», give them a job and video games…

George Orwell’s Big Brother is still watching us. Socializing means reflecting upon our life, our future. Politicians don’t like that. Go to the polls, put your ballot paper in the box and pay your taxes. Be a good boy and that’s it! This way, robotizing is an efficient way to rule by destroying human contacts.

Philippe-Henri

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says who ?

Message  krystynaD le Mer 6 Jan - 18:41

Hello everybody,

Season's Greetings to all, and Best Wishes for the New Year ...

It's been a while since I was here, but I feel compelled to add my 2 cents worth !

I cannot agree with monsieur Philippe-Henri regarding his presumption that one cannot say "Thank God" in everyday english.
As a native english speaker (for more than 60 years), I can assure you that it is perfectly acceptable to say "Thank God" in any circumstance.

Hi Guilaine ...
Don't be sorry !
You can say Thank God as often as you like, any time, any place !

Krystyna
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WHY MAKING ROBOTS LOOK MORE HUMAN ?

Message  Philippe-Henri le Mer 6 Jan - 20:09

To krystinaD and guilaine

I do love Krystina’s comments on the expression «Thank God» .

As a non-native English speaker I’d always been taught that Her Gracious Majesty’s subjects were reluctant to refer to «God» on a day-to-day basis. Let it be. Anyway, when speaking English, I’ll go on taking God aside and saying «good heavens» or «for heaven’s sake» and so on.

In French ̶ which is not my native language either ̶ the expression «grâce à Dieu» doesn’t imply any religious connotation but as an atheist I would never use it. ut this shows that polyglots do not just play on language. They actually «manipulate» different cultures and by doing so, they bring world peoples together instead of exterminating one another with car bombs and kalashnikovs…

Let it be so.

I wish you all a happier new year than the previous one.

Philippe-Henri

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Re: why making the robots look more human ?

Message  Guilaine le Mer 6 Jan - 21:50

Hi Krystyna,
Thank you for your good wishes. Happy New Year to you and your dear ones, too !
I am very pleased to meet you again on the Forum.
And thank you for your contribution about the expression "Thank God" which apparently does not suit Philippe-Henri.
I must say I was a bit puzzled with his remark, and I no more knew whether it was right or wrong.
Now that the thing has been clarified, I feel much better.

To Philippe-Henri,
I understand you don't want God to be called in such down-to-earth matters. And you are right, although I dare to say 'why not' after all ?
But I used that expression without thinking twice, just to expres my relief about what had just been said about robots.
Bye for now.
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Re: why making the robots look more human ?

Message  gerardM le Mer 6 Jan - 22:01

Guilaine,
Krystyna can teach you lots of swearwords to express your feelings avoiding "God".

Australians are very savvy in the domain... EII is also bloody good, but with Philip.

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Re: why making the robots look more human ?

Message  Guilaine le Mer 6 Jan - 22:17

Yes, Gérard, I need to make progress in that domain, at least to be able to understand swearwords...
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Why making the robots look more human

Message  Philippe-Henri le Jeu 7 Jan - 7:25

To Krystyna, Guilaine Gérard and others

I’m delighted to have unleashed a debate on a controversial subject. It started with robots and ended with God!

Actually, it’s of no importance at all. As long as we, polyglots, are aware that language is not just a matter of… language! By talking, we don’t really express what we mean to say. We just give our interlocutor a hint.

Now, polyglots have the ability of playing in different registers, Compare it to an organist playing a contrapuntal fugue by Bach. By speaking a foreign language we get access to different «sounds», short, to different cultural system.

And this is more essential to «peace on Earth» than what a prophet, who pretended to be God’s son, tried to yell us by X-mas, a fortnight ago.

Meantime, for God’s sake (!), it doesn’t make any difference you swear by God or by the Devil

.Philippe-Henri

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Re: why making the robots look more human ?

Message  MurielB le Jeu 7 Jan - 9:30


I’m delighted to have unleashed a debate on a controversial subject. It started with robots and ended with God!

Hi Henri !
I am pleased  you are happy with that controversial subject because I know you don't like when everyone agrees with what you write. It's the prupose of our forum to bring about different ideas isn't it ?

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Re: why making the robots look more human ?

Message  MurielB le Jeu 7 Jan - 9:32

Hi Krystyna !
I am so happy to meet you again on that forum. Happy  New Year and all the best for you and the people you love. Do keep in mind that you promised to come and visit us in Calais one day (It is written in your bucket list Wink )  !

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Re: why making the robots look more human ?

Message  MurielB le Jeu 7 Jan - 10:16

Hi Guilaine !
I agree with you, robots are a great help with household chores ! tasks such as cleaning, washing, and ironing that have to be done regularly at home are very boring aren't they ?

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