Bilingual children

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Bilingual children

Message  MurielB le Lun 10 Déc - 22:03

At the moment I am looking after my grand child Emile (2 years old) who usually stays all day in an English creche (winchester). . He is staying with us for 2 weeks. It is amazing the way he speaks because he is happy with both English and French language.

I enjoy singing nursery rhymes with him. i have found very good ones

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBEHFFnV3RY

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Re: Bilingual children

Message  gerardM le Lun 10 Déc - 23:47

Hi Muriel,

Thanks for your message.
Kids are amazingly talented!

Are his teachers true English speaking persons? It's absolutely necessary to have native teachers so that the pronunciation is perfect.
(words below are an extension of your message ie I'm speaking about general purposes)
In kindergartens and/or private schools, it's usually the case but from "CP" on (managed by Education Nationale) it's bloody difficult as AFAIK teachers must have French official degrees.
A perfect pronunciation is absolutely necessary as the true sounds are the keys of En language (our teachers in France are French people and it's a nightmare = big mistake).

I'm worrying about the future of the French project...

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Re: Bilingual children

Message  MurielB le Mar 11 Déc - 0:03

Hi Gerard !
Emile lives in England you know..He is in a true English environment

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Re: Bilingual children

Message  gerardM le Mar 11 Déc - 14:41

Ah OK! Perfect then.

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Re: Bilingual children

Message  coldfusion le Mer 12 Déc - 16:26

hello,
I would say our children will all become citizen of the world. I can remind the time (not so long ago) when finding someone who could barely speak english was really a challenge.
I am very surprised how fast they learn and how easy they catch this horrible english accent within only 3 or 4 months.

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Re: Bilingual children

Message  gerardM le Mer 12 Déc - 18:23

Hi coldfusion,

This remind me of the Middle Ages when high level people were able to communicate (in Latin) with any counterpart in Europe... sometimes better than they communicated with their countryfellows.
In the Middle Ages, this led to the loss of Latin and the arrival of country-languages.
What will the present time lead to? Loss of French? Adoption of English as a common language? none = adoption of Chinese for everyone with disappearance of both English and French?

> how easy they catch this horrible english accent
... not nice! :-(
Why do you say the English accent is horrible? First, there're lots of different English accents.
Except that French may be your mother language, do you find French nice to the ears?... it's one of the rare languages in the world which are monotonous (no stressed syllable). On the other hand, in English, German and other languages, stress is set on the main syllable in words and on the main word in sentences ie on important items (which is not silly).

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Re: Bilingual children

Message  coldfusion le Jeu 13 Déc - 10:28

hello gerard,
have you ever tried to say "the" or "hunger" etc..?
Not so easy, right?
To be a citizen of the world means : you should not stay in your own country all the time and for that language is your first step to meet other people.
Otherwise, English is the most difficult language, because there are no pronounciation rules with the writing. For example, Miami ist said like "Mai-A-Mi". Bizarre for the "i" in the same word, isn't it?
I would add to conclude there are so many english accents in the world from Cannada to Autralia, actually...


Dernière édition par coldfusion le Jeu 13 Déc - 11:31, édité 1 fois

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Re: Bilingual children

Message  gerardM le Jeu 13 Déc - 11:25

Hi coldfusion,

> have you ever tried to say "the" or "hunger" etc..?
Did you ask an English Mothertongue to pronounce "dessus" & "dessous" or "sens dessus-dessous"?
Did you ask an English Mothertongue to pronounce "fauteuil" or "mille-feuilles"?
Did you try to explain to an English Mothertongue the pronunciations of "fille" and "ville"?
Did you try to explain to an English Mothertongue the pronunciation of "Louis de Broglie" or the family "Schneider"?
> Not so easy, right?
French is not easier than English.

> English is the most difficult language
Do you speak Polish?

> there are no pronounciation rules with the writing. For example, Miami ist said like "Mai-A-Mi". Bizarre for the "i" in one word, isn't it?
The pronunciation of "Miami" doesn't surprise me.
I don't agree: pronunciation rules exist but they are nor taught in France; they are in English: taught and repeated for hours at the primary school.

> I would add to conclude there are so many english accents in the world from Cannada to Autralia, actually...
That's what I wrote.
There're many accents throughout the English-speaking world but there're also points that don't change.

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Re: Bilingual children

Message  coldfusion le Jeu 13 Déc - 11:38

you take some examples from the foreigner words : schneider, de broglie etc... so the pronouciation depends on
do you know that there are more dyslexic in all spoken english countries than in latin countries?
There are few dyslexic people in Italy, because italian is spoken as it is written.

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Re: Bilingual children

Message  gerardM le Jeu 13 Déc - 17:25

Hi coldfusion,

> you take some examples from the foreigner words : schneider, de broglie etc... so the pronouciation depends on
Louis Victor de Broglie, prince, puis duc de Broglie (15 août 1892 à Dieppe, France - 19 mars 1987 à Louveciennes, France) est un mathématicien et physicien français. À seulement 37 ans, il devient lauréat du prix Nobel de physique de 1929 « pour sa découverte de la nature ondulatoire des électrons »... il compte d'illustres ancêtres dont Jacques Necker et sa fille Germaine de Staël.
... very French.
La famille Schneider est une puissante dynastie de maîtres de forges et d'industriels qui fonda au XIXe siècle les aciéries du Creusot. Plusieurs d'entre eux furent ministres ou banquiers.
Le nom se prononce traditionnellement Schnedr ʃnɛdʀ.
... very French as well.

> ... italian is spoken as it is written.
Yes, provided you know about the rules e.g. "g" in genitori/giallo/gamba, "c" in cena/colpa/cioccolato, "gl" in moglie, etc. you need the keys... ;-)
I thought we were speaking about English and French.

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Re: Bilingual children

Message  gerardM le Jeu 13 Déc - 17:35

Don't focus on the pronunciation that much.
As we both wrote it, there're various accents in the English world.
Some old English persons do complain about the poor pronunciation of young guys in England and they would frown on foreign pronunciation.
Some Americans won't understand when they don't know anything outside the States.
Australians and many other countries are very open: they will make an effort and will understand you whatever your pronunciation.

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Re: Bilingual children

Message  MurielB le Ven 14 Déc - 8:16

Hi Gerard ! Hi coldfusion ! Hi everyone !

Anyway accents are very interesting. They indicate in such a nice way where people come from. My daughter's in-laws come from northern England and have a very strong accent.
I noticed that the sound that you found in 'pub' or 'shut' often sounds more like the o of the word 'book'.
Apparently, there's also a tendency to drop the h in certain circumstances and to do the same with the th and to lengthen the 'long a' sound.

just click to know more about it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I4CXg1hkbs

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Re: Bilingual children

Message  gerardM le Ven 14 Déc - 9:53

Hi Muriel, coldfusion, hi everyone,

I can't help posting this cartoon one of my "friends" displayed on FaceBook

‎ | 97 - ninety-seven; noventa e sete |
| 97 - siebenUNDneunzig |
| 97 - quatre-vingt-dix-sept |
This shows how easy and simple French is ;-)

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Re: Bilingual children

Message  coldfusion le Sam 15 Déc - 10:55

quatre-vingt dix sept ou nonante sept chez les "mieux-parler-français"...
sinon il y a des noms alsaciens qui se sont francisés puis germanisés et encore refrancisés. Alors ça donne de drôles choses...
Otherwise there are some alsatian names which is gallicized and germanized then once again re-gallicized. Therefore there are some strangenesses

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Re: Bilingual children

Message  MurielB le Sam 27 Déc - 16:40

Hi Gérard, Cold fusion, everyone.
Here are some news from Emile the 2 year old little boy who attended an English nursery school two years ago: He is now 4 and no longer in England but in France. Both parents are French so he is  in a French school. To keep his level of English an English lady comes everyday to play with him in English. His accent is still perfect but his first language is  French. He likes singing very much and when we have time we sing together . If you are interested here is a very good link : The tune and the lyrics

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unconscious languages The independant by Elisa Criado vocable 701

Message  MurielB le Mer 14 Jan - 8:36

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/unconscious-languages-forgotten-mother-tongues-leave-traces-in-the-brain-9869147.html



People who left their birth place at an early age may not have any memories of the first language they heard around them, but the pathways it created in their brains remain intact, scientists say. 

Hi Gérard, cold fusion
Brain imaging techniques  examine the effects of lost languages. It is amazing to note that they show the same response pattern in the brains of people who have left their birth place at an early age and can't speak their birth place language as the brains of the people who are fluent in the same language.
It proves that it is important to bring up a child in a bilingual environment.  even if the child can't speak the two languages currently it helps. A lot of things prove helpful too : television, songs etc. What do you think ?

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