the 947th anniversary of the Battle of Hastings 14 October 2013

Voir le sujet précédent Voir le sujet suivant Aller en bas

the 947th anniversary of Battle of Hastings 14 October 2013

Message  JeanPierreD le Sam 12 Oct - 19:58

If there are events to be remembered and perhaps celebrated, there are an old one in our history between France and England, the 14 october 1066 battle of Hastings which marked the Norman invasion and occupation of England.
To explain it we have to go backward in time and remember that at those times, like many countries , France had many difficulties to unit . The country had to fight against the Viking incursions along the Seine . A Scandinavian nobleman Viking leader Rollo, leader of the « Northmen » sailed even until Paris and sieged it in 886 . He was eventually defeated but  french King Charles III « the Simple » thought wiser  to give him through the Treaty of St Claire sur Epte a whole portion of land around the Seine river at the estuary and made him his vassal. Then these acres of lands extended to the whole area around Rouen and became after Viking leaders converted to christianity, the Northmen became Normani and their land the Normandy and a duchy
From then on, the Duke of Normandy and the King of England were usually the same man, until the king of France seized Normandy from King John in 1204.

So let’s go back to this event of the year 1066 we’ll soon celebrate. The Norman conquest of England was the 11th century invasion and occupation of England by an army of Norman, Breton and French soldiers led by Duke William II of Normandy, named later William the Conqueror.
William ‘s claim to the English throne derived from his family relationship with the childless Anglo-saxon king Edward the confessor (he was his cousin) , who may have encourage William’s hopes for the throne . Edward the confessor died in january 1066 and was succeeded by his brother  in law Harold Godwinson. At that times English had to care with north germanic invasions  too . In september 1066 the Norvegian king Hardrada invaded northern England, after a first victory he was killed by Harold  during the battle of Stamford Bridge 25 september 1066. Knowing that, William landed in southern England, at Pevensey . Harold marched south to confront him, leaving so quick he had to leave part of its army in the north . Harold’s weakened army confronted William’s invaders on 14 october 1066 at the Battle of Hasting. William’s forces defeated Harold’s who was himself killed in the engagement . The so-called Battle of Hastings took place actually in the near place of Battle.
William’s coronation took place in Westminster abbey (built by his cousin Edward the Confessor) on Christmas day 1066 and all the English Kings and Qeens have been crowned there ever since . The lands of the resistants English elites were confiscated, some of the elite fled into exhile. William gave lands to his followers and built castles commanding military strongpoints troughout the land  such as the first Tower of London and a fortress at Windsor. As a consequence of the conquest was the introduction of Norman French in the langage of the elites, which explains that a millenium later the English langage contains a lot of words from Norman French, and sometimes two words to explain two things, one from Norman French like liberty, and and other from saxon origin, like freedom . That could mean that English could be easy for french people, for we can easily recognize these words while reading, but orally it’s an other story ; these words pronounced with the english accent are very uneasy to recognize, they don’t sound french at all…
William founded an abbey, the altar of which stood the very spot where Harold died . The ruins of the abbey can be visited and special events will be held for the anniversary on 14th of october.
In France the so-called Bayeux Tapestry depicted as a cartoon through fifty scenes with latin tituli the events leading up to the conquest of England.
And now what remains from the ancient Duchy of Normandy. Until 1204 it was held by the Anglo-Norman Plantagenet Kings of England then was conquered by Philip II of France in 1204 (at that time Calais remained under the rule of  king John of England) and remained disputed territory until the Treaty of Paris of 1259, when the English sovereigns ceded their claim, except for the Channel Islands (Guernsey and Jersey). For all these reasons in the Channel Islands the Queen Elizabeth II is known as « the  Duke of Normandy »
avatar
JeanPierreD

Messages : 118
Lieu : Calais
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), Gb

Voir le profil de l'utilisateur

Revenir en haut Aller en bas

the 947th anniversary of the Battle of Hastings 14 October 2013

Message  JeanPierreD le Sam 12 Oct - 19:59

If there are events to be remembered and perhaps celebrated, there are an old one in our history between France and England, the 14 october 1066 battle of Hastings which marked the Norman invasion and occupation of England.
To explain it we have to go backward in time and remember that at those times, like many countries , France had many difficulties to unit . The country had to fight against the Viking incursions along the Seine . A Scandinavian nobleman Viking leader Rollo, leader of the « Northmen » sailed even until Paris and sieged it in 886 . He was eventually defeated but  french King Charles III « the Simple » thought wiser  to give him through the Treaty of St Claire sur Epte a whole portion of land around the Seine river at the estuary and made him his vassal. Then these acres of lands extended to the whole area around Rouen and became after Viking leaders converted to christianity, the Northmen became Normani and their land the Normandy and a duchy
From then on, the Duke of Normandy and the King of England were usually the same man, until the king of France seized Normandy from King John in 1204.

So let’s go back to this event of the year 1066 we’ll soon celebrate. The Norman conquest of England was the 11th century invasion and occupation of England by an army of Norman, Breton and French soldiers led by Duke William II of Normandy, named later William the Conqueror.
William ‘s claim to the English throne derived from his family relationship with the childless Anglo-saxon king Edward the confessor (he was his cousin) , who may have encourage William’s hopes for the throne . Edward the confessor died in january 1066 and was succeeded by his brother  in law Harold Godwinson. At that times English had to care with north germanic invasions  too . In september 1066 the Norvegian king Hardrada invaded northern England, after a first victory he was killed by Harold  during the battle of Stamford Bridge 25 september 1066. Knowing that, William landed in southern England, at Pevensey . Harold marched south to confront him, leaving so quick he had to leave part of its army in the north . Harold’s weakened army confronted William’s invaders on 14 october 1066 at the Battle of Hasting. William’s forces defeated Harold’s who was himself killed in the engagement . The so-called Battle of Hastings took place actually in the near place of Battle.
William’s coronation took place in Westminster abbey (built by his cousin Edward the Confessor) on Christmas day 1066 and all the English Kings and Qeens have been crowned there ever since . The lands of the resistants English elites were confiscated, some of the elite fled into exhile. William gave lands to his followers and built castles commanding military strongpoints troughout the land  such as the first Tower of London and a fortress at Windsor. As a consequence of the conquest was the introduction of Norman French in the langage of the elites, which explains that a millenium later the English langage contains a lot of words from Norman French, and sometimes two words to explain two things, one from Norman French like liberty, and and other from saxon origin, like freedom . That could mean that English could be easy for french people, for we can easily recognize these words while reading, but orally it’s an other story ; these words pronounced with the english accent are very uneasy to recognize, they don’t sound french at all…
William founded an abbey, the altar of which stood the very spot where Harold died . The ruins of the abbey can be visited and special events will be held for the anniversary on 14th of october.
In France the so-called Bayeux Tapestry depicted as a cartoon through fifty scenes with latin tituli the events leading up to the conquest of England.
And now what remains from the ancient Duchy of Normandy. Until 1204 it was held by the Anglo-Norman Plantagenet Kings of England then was conquered by Philip II of France in 1204 (at that time Calais remained under the rule of  king John of England) and remained disputed territory until the Treaty of Paris of 1259, when the English sovereigns ceded their claim, except for the Channel Islands (Guernsey and Jersey). For all these reasons in the Channel Islands the Queen Elizabeth II is known as « the  Duke of Normandy »
avatar
JeanPierreD

Messages : 118
Lieu : Calais
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), Gb

Voir le profil de l'utilisateur

Revenir en haut Aller en bas

Re: the 947th anniversary of the Battle of Hastings 14 October 2013

Message  gerardM le Sam 12 Oct - 22:30

Hi Jean-Pierre,

Thanks for this very interesting posting.

> St Claire sur Epte
The spelling is St-Clair-sur-Epte.
I go to this location very often as it's one of our favorite regions for trekking. The region is named Vexin which is composed of Vexin Français and Vexin Normand refering to that period.

-> Wikipedia -Treaty of Saint-Clair-sur-Epte

_________________
Please feel free to point out big mistakes in my messages in a foreign language. Thanks to your remarks, I'll be able to improve my level.
PS: Pls note that I chose American English for my vocabulary, grammar, spelling, culture, etc.  :-)
avatar
gerardM

Messages : 34234
Lieu : Ermont & Eaubonne café-langues (Val d'Oise)
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), US-En, De, It, Ru

Voir le profil de l'utilisateur http://volangues.blogspot.com/

Revenir en haut Aller en bas

Re: the 947th anniversary of the Battle of Hastings 14 October 2013

Message  MurielB le Sam 12 Oct - 23:16

Hi Gérard, Hi Jean-Pierre
Thank you for this very interesting post. I remember seeing the Bayeux tapestry which depicts so well that battle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayeux_Tapestry
 
The Bayeux Tapestry (French: Tapisserie de Bayeux, IPA: [tapisʁi də bajø], Norman: La telle du conquest) is an embroidered cloth—not an actual tapestry—nearly 70 metres (230 ft) long, which depicts the events leading up to the Norman conquest of England concerning William, Duke of Normandy, and Harold, Earl of Wessex, later King of England, and culminating in the Battle of Hastings.

_________________
Merci de me faire part des grosses fautes dans mes messages en langue étrangère. Grâce à vos remarques, je pourrai m'améliorer :-)
avatar
MurielB
Admin

Messages : 12433
Lieu : Calais
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), Gb, De, It, Es

Voir le profil de l'utilisateur

Revenir en haut Aller en bas

Re: the 947th anniversary of the Battle of Hastings 14 October 2013

Message  gerardM le Dim 13 Oct - 16:13

Hi Muriel, Jean-Pierre, hi everyone,

I know it's not exactly the heart of the subject but I wanted to link with another possibly familiar point so that members could better remember.
I wanted to speak about Monet and Giverny (famous stuff) which is close to St Clair sur Epte (23 kilometers).
I needed to check about the name of the creek Monet diverted to feed his gardens.
In 1893, ten years after his arrival at Giverny, Monet bought the piece of land neighbouring his property on the other side of the railway. It was crossed by a small brook, the Ru, which is a diversion of the Epte, a tributary of the Seine River. With the support of the prefecture, Monet had the first small pond dug ; even though his peasant neighbours were opposed. They were afraid that his strange plants would poison the water.
( http://giverny.org/gardens/fcm/visitgb.htm )
So it's not exactly the Epte Monet diverted but the "Ru" (let's say it doesn't have a name LOL as ru is a common word).
I have to correct the words above: the Ru goes to the Epte, which goes to the Eure, which goes to the Seine river (Eure was forgotten).

NB: I would like to point out:
- I walked along Monet's garden last Thursday
- "creek" (a word I used) is an American word; the British one is "brook"; surprisingly (yeah it occurs), creek is also used in Australia (Australians usualy use British words rather than American ones)
- "creek" does exist with another meaning in British English, after the French "crique (same meaning ie a narrow part of sea)"
- there's no railway left
- Monet lived several years in another neighboring village: Vétheuil.
- Giverny lies at 23 kilometers from St-Clair-sur-Epte; Vétheuil is at 21km from St-Clair-sur-Epte. Giverny is at 16 km from Giverny.

_________________
Please feel free to point out big mistakes in my messages in a foreign language. Thanks to your remarks, I'll be able to improve my level.
PS: Pls note that I chose American English for my vocabulary, grammar, spelling, culture, etc.  :-)
avatar
gerardM

Messages : 34234
Lieu : Ermont & Eaubonne café-langues (Val d'Oise)
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), US-En, De, It, Ru

Voir le profil de l'utilisateur http://volangues.blogspot.com/

Revenir en haut Aller en bas

St Clair-sur-Epte, Giverny, etc...

Message  JeanPierreD le Lun 14 Oct - 10:05

Thank you for these informations about the Bayeux tapestry which is not actually a tapestry but an embroidery and St-Clair-sur-Epte , location of which i was completely ignorant. Thank you for correcting me when i need to.
I am not good at geography and this jump until Giverny was very interesting and helps me to locate this small village of less than 1000 inhabitants which with the river Epte is at the very limit of  Normandie and Ile-de-France.
avatar
JeanPierreD

Messages : 118
Lieu : Calais
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), Gb

Voir le profil de l'utilisateur

Revenir en haut Aller en bas

Re: the 947th anniversary of the Battle of Hastings 14 October 2013

Message  gerardM le Jeu 17 Oct - 22:04

Hi Jean-Pierre, hi everyone,

Thurdays are weekly trekking days for my group.

We went to St-Clair-sur-Epte and due to our present thread, I paid more attention.
( http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-Clair-sur-Epte - I prefer to provide you with the French page as the English one doesn't display many things)
St-Clair is a very small village of less than 1,000 inhabitants. However its history is bloody rich; unfortunately, they cannot take advantage of this to promote it Evil or Very Mad no money!
- treaty in 911 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Saint-Clair-sur-Epte
- the castle in which the treaty was signed was destroyed in the 15th century - only a few walls of the donjon left
- another castle built around 1087 - mostly destroyed nowadays
- a kind of dolmen
- a beautiful church with both Romanesque and Gothic architectures, listed as a historical monument - but in a very poor shape Crying or Very sad 
- a Saint: St Clerc who is an English guy who escaped from his country as he didn't want to get married with the girly people wanted to (he was destined to be a King of something similar)
This guy Clair was beheaded... who took his head in his hands and went on walking (LOL very common at the time)
- a priory
- maybe other items I forget

Will you believe me? I don't understand: I wanted to take a photo but I cannot find it on my camera (I had to catch up with the group of hikers and probably failed to push the button properly!!

_________________
Please feel free to point out big mistakes in my messages in a foreign language. Thanks to your remarks, I'll be able to improve my level.
PS: Pls note that I chose American English for my vocabulary, grammar, spelling, culture, etc.  :-)
avatar
gerardM

Messages : 34234
Lieu : Ermont & Eaubonne café-langues (Val d'Oise)
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), US-En, De, It, Ru

Voir le profil de l'utilisateur http://volangues.blogspot.com/

Revenir en haut Aller en bas

St Clair

Message  JeanPierreD le Sam 19 Oct - 19:58

Hi Gérard, Hi everyone
You're lucky to hick around this lovely countryside where strange things happen...

"Will you believe me? I don't understand: I wanted to take a photo but I cannot find it on my camera (I had to catch up with the group of hikers and probably failed to push the button properly!!
I'd rather think it may be a joke of this beheaded-Saint-who-continued-to-walk-with-his-head-in-his-hands ! Very Happy
avatar
JeanPierreD

Messages : 118
Lieu : Calais
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), Gb

Voir le profil de l'utilisateur

Revenir en haut Aller en bas

Re: the 947th anniversary of the Battle of Hastings 14 October 2013

Message  gerardM le Sam 19 Oct - 21:10

Hi Jean-Pierre,

I suppose it is similar in any region of France.
Walkers are often very impressed by big churches or abbeys one can find in very small villages. It is sad to see that villages were rich long ago but no longer, it is sad as well that so beautiful monuments are in so bad shapes.

I don't know if the Parisian region is different. For example in St-Clair-sur-Epte, the buildings and events I'm speaking about date back to 911, 1066, 1087; the older part of the present church was built in the 12th century... Paris was nothing at that time.

Regarding St-Clair-sur-Epte, I paid more attention last Thursday because of this topic.
I already walked in this village several times. I knew about the treaty of 911 because I walked there in 2011 and had read an article about the anniversary.
On last Thursday I stayed longer in the village (we usually walk but rarely visit) and was surprised to find so many remarkable historic sites.

As i wrote, there are wonders in many villages but they were usually built after the 12th century and it mainly concerns churches.
It's true that Saint-Clair was the boarder between France, and Normandy, and England so that many fightings took place around there.

_________________
Please feel free to point out big mistakes in my messages in a foreign language. Thanks to your remarks, I'll be able to improve my level.
PS: Pls note that I chose American English for my vocabulary, grammar, spelling, culture, etc.  :-)
avatar
gerardM

Messages : 34234
Lieu : Ermont & Eaubonne café-langues (Val d'Oise)
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), US-En, De, It, Ru

Voir le profil de l'utilisateur http://volangues.blogspot.com/

Revenir en haut Aller en bas

Re: the 947th anniversary of the Battle of Hastings 14 October 2013

Message  gerardM le Sam 19 Oct - 21:32

Jean-Pierre,

More words about my walk in the Vexin normand on last Thursday.

Our group of walkers are members of an Association of retirees.
In addition to walks, we also have several other activities and especially one named MéLoDi (after Mémoire Logique Discernement ie exercises for the brain: the age of the captain, etc.). The lead of Thursday's walk also runs MéLoDi so that he has many documents and stories with him when we walk: that's why we stayed longer at St-Clair, and had lunch in the gardens of the priory where Clair was the prior and where he was beheaded.

_________________
Please feel free to point out big mistakes in my messages in a foreign language. Thanks to your remarks, I'll be able to improve my level.
PS: Pls note that I chose American English for my vocabulary, grammar, spelling, culture, etc.  :-)
avatar
gerardM

Messages : 34234
Lieu : Ermont & Eaubonne café-langues (Val d'Oise)
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), US-En, De, It, Ru

Voir le profil de l'utilisateur http://volangues.blogspot.com/

Revenir en haut Aller en bas

"endangered" nineteen century churches ....

Message  JeanPierreD le Mar 29 Oct - 11:12

Hello gérard
Very nice way to work out his memory skills as well as the body ...
The state of the churches in some villages is really worrying, specially those built in the nineteen century which are not listed (and therefore not protected ) as historical monuments. When they need important works and repairing most of the times the small municipalities to whom they belong concerning the upkeep don't have the means for. But in some villages the most ancient building is often this nineteen century church . For example in Lumbres, near Saint Omer the neogothic church built mid nineteen century was due to be destroyed because the municipality could not afford the big repairing . My grand father and grand mother had their wedding ceremony in this little church, my father told me... Luckily the story ended well and recently i've learned that thanks to some very motivated inhabitants who managed to gather enough money the church has been saved from destruction and been repaired !

http://patrimoine-environnement.fr/leglise-de-saint-sulpice-de-lumbres-sauvee-de-la-destruction/
avatar
JeanPierreD

Messages : 118
Lieu : Calais
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), Gb

Voir le profil de l'utilisateur

Revenir en haut Aller en bas

Re: the 947th anniversary of the Battle of Hastings 14 October 2013

Message  gerardM le Mar 29 Oct - 14:31

Hi Jean-Pierre, hi everyone,

Happy ending for St Sulpice of Lumbres.

That's true that many monuments are in danger, even listed as ancient monuments.

Years/centuries ago, people were more religious and individuals could provide money against their names on commemorative plaques.
As far as I know, Americans re-opened Monet's house and gardens (I guess the garden maintenance is now financed by a Japanese uni).
After the big windstorm at the end of the nineties, the gardens of Versailles were "saved" by American money.

_________________
Please feel free to point out big mistakes in my messages in a foreign language. Thanks to your remarks, I'll be able to improve my level.
PS: Pls note that I chose American English for my vocabulary, grammar, spelling, culture, etc.  :-)
avatar
gerardM

Messages : 34234
Lieu : Ermont & Eaubonne café-langues (Val d'Oise)
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), US-En, De, It, Ru

Voir le profil de l'utilisateur http://volangues.blogspot.com/

Revenir en haut Aller en bas

Voir le sujet précédent Voir le sujet suivant Revenir en haut


 
Permission de ce forum:
Vous ne pouvez pas répondre aux sujets dans ce forum