Re: True English

gerardM Mer 19 Avr - 22:06

Howdy.

I often post lists of expressions to respond to...

Below is a true exchange from Facebook.
You'll read the message posted by a young Brit Tom around 20 whose grandfather Alan passed away.
You can read his words.
You can read the true responses by EMTs (mostly British).
Take a look at words that most French people wouldn't write...

Tom H with Alan H.
Chester, England, United Kingdom ·

No words can explain how much I am going to miss this man.....
Grandad you were the true definition of a family man! You were always there for me and my brother, always 100% ready to fight my corner, and always a constant source of inspiration throughout my childhood.
You were taken way too soon but I am extremely thankful for all of the great memories and years that I have had with you. I will never forget all of the precious moments that we have shared, our days out together, and the endless stream of jokes that you used to tell at family gatherings!
I love you so so much and I hope to make you proud in everything that I do xxxxx

(a picture of Tom and his grandfather)

James H - I'm so sorry Tom, that's very lovely and very sad! I'm sure your grandad would be proud of you!
John Jack D - Thinking of you and all the family. Lovely words for your Grandad. Your Grandad was a top top man and a true gentleman x
Michael B - So sorry about your loss, your grandad was a great man, I've known him for years, worked with him too, always friendly and funny. He will be greatly missed, my thoughts are with you all
Alice H - oh Tom, this is awful news. sending lots of love to you and your family. he was a lovely man xxxxx
Jay McG U - no where we r if u need anything. Xxxx
Alice D - So so sorry for your loss, he was a lovely man, and taken far too soon. Thinking of you all at this sad time xx
Emma R - So sorry for your loss tom your grandad was a lovely man xx
Maureen F - Thinking of you & all of your family at this sad time. Condolences to all luv from Mo & John XXXX
Vicky C - So sorry for your loss. Our thoughts are with you all
Sue P - Thinking of you all at this very sad time. XX
Catherine F - xxx
Nicola Dawn T - So sorry xxx
Elliot B - Sorry to hear about that tom! Your grandad was great man, You'll definitely do him proud!
Shirley D - Lovely words Tom, thinking of you all xxx
Angela C - So so sorry Tom he was a true gentleman xxx
Amanda D - So sorry tom to you and your lovely family uncle Alan was I lovely man so sorry for your lost xxx
Janet R - Such a lovely man Tom. Beautiful words too. Much love.
Rico C - You are lucky to have had this awesome man in your life. So sorry for your loss. .
Heather W - Thinking about you and your family at this sad and difficult time Tom. X
Liv G -
Lynn D - Sorry to hear about your loss, thinking of you all at this sad time, x
Julie B - Thinking of you he will be sooooo proud of you Tom in what you are going to achieve. Lots of love xx
Joyce L - RIP Alan such. Lovely person will miss you xxx
Becky J - Omg so sorry to hear this sad news R.I.P Alan xxx
Ann A - Deepest sympathy to Denise and family so sad xx
Bev L - Thinking of you all xxxx
Julie B - Sorry to hear your sad news Tom Hewson. Thinking of your family. Big hugs to you xx
Megan H - So so so sorry to hear this tommy! Sending all my love to you . Love you
Julie H - Big hugs Tom ,,,one lovely man all my thoughts with you and your family xxx
Emma Sistamatic M - What a lovley man he was x sending hugs and kisses to you and all the famalam x xx
Darcy M - So sorry for your loss tom, your grandad was such a lovely caring man, always making me laugh and smile, thoughts are with you allxx
Debbie W - Sending our deepest condolences to the family xx
Julie D. A - So sorry Tom x x x
Wendy H - Awww Tom i am so sorry to hear this sad news, such lovely words, thinking about you all at this sad time xx
Sarah G - Thats lovely tom xx thinking of u all
Alison B-M - So sorry Tom - treasure the memories. xoxo
Theresa McG - Thinking of you Tom! Xx
Julie H - Sending much love Tom, he will always be watching over you beaming with pride. Big hugs xx
Brenda S - Lovely words thinking of you all xxx bren
Claire F. W. S - So sorry Tom, big hugs to you all xx
Gordon H - So sorry about Alan he was my best mate when we were kids we used to go camping together and had our first pint together at 15 again sorry for your loss
Jacqui W - So so sorry to read this tom
Send out love to your nan dad mom and ki x

(I had to erase hearts that were cutting the text)

A difference between Americans and British is that with Am, we'd find many words about praying.

MurielB Jeu 20 Avr - 9:57

Gérard readîng that is very movîng. I agree that French people would not write that.

gerardM Jeu 20 Avr - 15:45

MurielB a écrit:Gérard readîng that is very movîng. I agree that French people would not write that.

Tom's words are very nice. They remind me of the words written by my nephews for Mother's day.

I'm very surprised by such words written by Brit youngsters; years ago I was shocked by the response of a Brit colleague at work. I warmly thanked him for kinda gift I received from him (a professional object he sent me and he told me to keep instead of sending back)... his response (on the phone) was "it's my job!". Someone agreed it was not really appropriate but explained to me the Brits were rather shy and were disturbed by feelings.

Tom's words are so kind. A French would have difficulties to pronounce these in front of a person and in my opinion, couldn't write them on Facebook. Anyway. Most responses ar kind as well.
Americans could write this too but the responses would typically refer to prayers.
A French response would have been more formal.

MurielB Jeu 20 Avr - 21:46

Gérard I think that French people use a formal language when it is a serious issue such as a bereavement. They can't let out their feelings as the English do but they don't suffer less.

gerardM Jeu 20 Avr - 23:07

Another example of a conversation from Facebook that shows its use between EMTs... truely handy to inform everyone, no?

This conversation is about a piece of news concerning my nephew Adam who is studying in England while his parents are in Dubaï.
The conversation is started by Alison, his mother.
Note the way Ali and her friends write.

Alison B.-M.
Too many feels for my last one Adam M. who has gone and got himself a well deserved Training Contract with White & Case - cha-ching, cha-ching - no more course funding for the parentals. Relieved, proud and happy in equal measure. Well done Ads - you wee star xoxo

Jane M - Fabulous. What a
Amanda S - Lawyer!!
Simona P. N. - Well done adam
Anne-Marie C - Well done and congrats to Adam. You must be smiling like a Cheshire Cat and must be so proud xx
Lisa M - Whoop whoop! Well done Adam!
Audrey McC - Oh alison. The tears have sprung to my eyes.....
Kathy P - Congratulations Adam. Does that mean the US ??
Gérard M - Congrats Adam. Impressed but not surprised WTG
Avril MacA - Congratulations Adam
Ian B - Congratulations to the Parents, say I ! And to Adam, smart f..t!
Elsa Van Der M - Brilliant - happy for all!
Will celebrate tomorrow
Well done Adam!
Julie S - Thrilled to bits. Ah-zah-zah, ....... (you know what I mean!). Truely deserved. Another 'Suit' in the family.
Alison B.-M - Another argument I will struggle to win!
Kate S - Many congrats Adam! Xx
Paula H - Brilliant adam well done . Proud mama xx
Susan B - Fantastic Alison xx
Bruce S - Excellent news Adam. Congratulations.
Nik H - Fantastic news. Well done Adam X o
Lizzie G - Well done Adam, Alison and JC xxxx
Jean-Claude M - We are sall o happy for you Adam, It is a great achievement and the result of your hard work and perseverance. A lot more dedication will be required to make it big but you are on the right path and in the right field. Athena (Greek Goddess of Knowledge and Learning) helping, I have got one final Fee payment due this month and I am square with Education after 25 years. Yabadabaduuuu!!!
Louise P -
Julie S - You can sleep well tonight J-C and Ali knowing that you have done well. Not just because your three children have done exceptionally well but also because they are wonderful, sensible, loving and gracious adults.
Louise P - Wow. Well done Adam. What a relief for you & JC. You've both made such an amazing contribution to the kids education.
Karen B - That's brilliant news, Adam. Time to celebrate Alison and JC! Xxx
Chris M - Congratulations Adam. A fabtastic outcome after years of hard work. Well done Ali and Jean Claude. How proud you must be. The nest is really empty now!

~~ Edit

I must add that there were other similar threads opened by the sister, and also by the brother.
The father Jean-Claude wrote in a French way: long speech and operation not over yet.

gerardM Lun 15 Mai - 22:15

Incredibly difficult!!

You know how rich English language is regarding swearwords, and how easily English speaking people use them.

Difficult to find new rude words... so rude that they are not even taught, hardly said in private.
However, I managed to get one (after years)!!

I'd already heard it but had forgotten.
Here it is: a very offensive one.

Did you ever heard "up yours!"?
My Hachette-Oxford dictionary doesn't even mention it.
The Cambridge dictionary shyly gives an explanation

used to show that you very much dislike someone or the things that someone has just said or done

LOL (not understandable)
In fact it's much worse than this... online slang specialists are clearer.

~~ edit
I finally found "up yours" in my Hachette-Oxford... said as "popular" scratch

gerardM Lun 15 Mai - 22:38

Nothing to do with the last post expression, except that here are a few interesting idioms around "up".

up to scratch
up to snuff
up to speed
up with
up yours!
(up) to the hilt
up-and-coming
up-and-over

gerardM Lun 15 Mai - 22:44

Back to "up yours".

Short for shove it up your ass.

Well, up yours! (idiomatic, dismissive, offensive, markedly vulgar) Go away! Go to hell! Up yours!

(Wiktionary)

used as a rude reply to someone who has annoyed or angered one

(Merriam-Webster)

an exclamation expressing contemptuous defiance or reject

(Oxford dictionary)

a vulgar expression of contempt or refusal

(Collins)

MurielB Mer 17 Mai - 10:53

Gérard I agree that "up yours" in French "va te faire voir" is not very nice and friendly;

gerardM Mer 17 Mai - 14:42

MurielB a écrit:Gérard I agree that "up yours" in French "va te faire voir" is not very nice and friendly;

Muriel, as you may know, in French, there's more offensive than "va te faire voir".
Similarly, Krystyna told me "up yours" was the poshy English pattern... see the "short for" mention in my former post.
An equivalent expression:

tell him to shove it£ ou he can shove it£! dis-lui qu'il peut se le mettre où je pense£!

(the £ sign means "popular".

gerardM Ven 19 Mai - 14:12

True English - Page 21 Safe_image.php?d=AQBWWh1bUjWfcsYp&w=476&h=249&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.llb.re.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpub%2Fnotes%2Fidioms%2Fcolours

Colour Idioms
LANGUAGELEARNINGBASE.COM

MurielB Ven 19 Mai - 21:49

I do wander why "green" is associated with envy ?
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080322114936AAlMzul

Why is Envy Green?

Why do we turn “green” with envy? In antiquity, the Hebrew word for envy, qinah, referred to the burning color in the face produced by a deep emotion. The Greeks believed that jealousy was accompanied by an overproduction of bile, lending a yellowish-green pallor to the victim’s complexion. In the seventh century B.C., the poetess Sappho used the word “green” to describe the face of a stricken lover. After that, the word was used freely by other poets to denote jealousy or envy. The most famous such reference and the origin of the term “green-eyed monster” is Iago’s speech in Shakespeare’s Othello: “O! Beware my lord, of jealousy; it is the green-ey’d monster which doth mock the meat it feeds on.”

gerardM Ven 19 Mai - 22:06

Thanks Muriel.

MurielB a écrit:I do wander why "green" is associated with envy ?
...

"Wander" exists but I bet you wanted to use "wonder" Smile

MurielB Sam 20 Mai - 20:51

True Gérard Tx for helping me improve my level !

gerardM Dim 25 Juin - 21:57

I sometimes read language knowledge is enough as soon as you can be understood...

My questions:
- must we learn English according to the friends we have?
- must we have friends matching our level in English?

How to do when you get a message from your friend stating he tried to commit suicide 2 times in 2 days?
What to respond?
For sure your friend needs immediate help!!
Are you going to ask your way to Trafalgar Square? or where is Jenny?

Clive - You know what, I am sick and tired of being Mr Nice guy. All it gets me is being crapped on. Well it's over, finished. There's going to be some serious payback coming. I'm sick of it and it's going to stop.

Clive - I've tried suicide twice in 2 days (and no cries for help what I took should have dropped a carthorse, even the doctors were amazed) I have nothing to lose. I've been so flat and empty inside for so long I just can't bear it.
So nobody can hurt me worse than I do every day. And why should I let a bunch of lying theiving skanks off the hook? ...

Clive - Discharged myself from woodlands clinic against their advice, by, wait for it, threatening suicide. Teehee!

My response is that I must learn Englih well enough to be able to rescue him tho' my first message was prudent:

Gérard - Clive, I'm not good enough at English. I won't write much as I don't want to write inappropriate and damaging words.
Let me just tell you you are important to me. I'm looking forward to your good health and good shape; I hope to read words about your climbing British hills/mountains soon.
Take care friend!

Gérard - > great support from MH Crisis team
We too want you to stay alive.
Not only I want you alive but I hope to read very soon,your rants at politics and injustice, your enthusiasm for mountaining, sports, good news...
Take care Clive!

My English will be good enough when I can help friends!
I remember in year 2000 I stayed awake all night long to rescue several unknown guys around the world repair their computers that got infected. I will do still more for a friend who is in such danger!

gerardM Dim 25 Juin - 23:42

I had the opportunity to learn so much from the responses of other friends: the weight of words, the culture of Americans, of Brits...

gerardM Lun 26 Juin - 1:35

I should post this in "American culture".

I know Clive thanks to the Internet and computing forums.
Another user of great help for Clive's problems today is Coly, a 95-year-old American woman.
Both taught me or rather brought confirmation of what solidarity and mutual help is.
In the years 1990s, I was a member of a big American forum named Computing.net on which we helped users repair their computers: there I learned what American solidarity really was.
Regarding Coly and Clive, it's a bit similar except that it was from 2003 and on another Am board named SWI-SpyWareInfo.net, helping against malware (I could notice Coly's wonderful work when I was on Computing.net).

gerardM Lun 26 Juin - 14:31

Brits don't write the same way as Americans, they are not as skillful.

MurielB Lun 26 Juin - 23:02

solidarity is better than personal skills !

gerardM Ven 14 Juil - 11:06

MurielB a écrit:solidarity is better than personal skills !

... depends Muriel.

gerardM Ven 14 Juil - 11:11

A message from my American friend Susan:

Susan H
A downpour yesterday and today, blink and gone but better than nothing. Magpies came to celebrate.

I post this because I never noticed "downpour" tho' it doesn't surprise me.

"Down" is a handy particle:
- sometimes with a true meaning of direction ("go down the hill")
- sometimes "useless" ie not translated ("go down to London")
- also used as a kind of prefix associated with several words ("downpour, down payment, down-and-out" - ie merged, with a hyphen, with a space...) to create nouns, adjectives, verbs, adverbs...

MurielB Ven 14 Juil - 17:03

Instead of downpour would you have written shower?

gerardM Ven 14 Juil - 17:21

MurielB a écrit:Instead of downpour would you have written shower?

No Muriel.
A "downpour" is a heavy rain while a "shower" is a light one.

~~Synonyms~~ Words of the area of downpour: cloudburst, deluge, rain, rainstorm, storm, wet, torrent, monsoon, inundation

MurielB Ven 14 Juil - 17:29

Ok Tx

gerardM Ven 14 Juil - 17:53

Welcome.